[ti]WIP[/ti]Mechanics Discussion

[evilklefki]

I got one: make it so that if there is weather happening in the overworld, having a cloud nine mon in your party removes it and castform changes forms out of battle.

[Twix]

- All fire moves, or moves with chance to burn (from user or foe) should unfreeze a Pokemon
- The first Pokemon in your team follows behind the player (like Silver)
Just a few thoughts I had

I also agree with coded's idea of normal poison crippling Special Attack, and disagree with evilklefki's thoughts are they are purely on the competitive level and the fact most battles won't actually be doubles.

[kizzo212]

Only real thing here that I would agree with is Ice resisting Fairy. Fire already resists it so maybe fairies have a thing about the temperature being too hot or cold. Ice resisting water might be nice as well, but I'd say increase access to freeze dry instead of making ice neutral on water.

[Twix]

I'm indifferent on the idea of Ice resisting fairy, but I feel that Ice shouldn't be neutral to Water, or even give out Freeze-Dry whillynilly seeing as the move is supposed to be given to few Pokemon. That being said, I'd rather Ice resist Fairy than be neutral on Water.

[Mirror Bubble]

New suggestion: Give ice types a Defense boost, 50% under hail. This would match the current +50% SpD that rock types have under sandstorm, balancing it out by giving hail a Defensive passive.

And if you think this is OP, then just look at the rock types, who have typically massive Defense and then get SpD buffs under sand :/

[kizzo212]

I don't really see how adding a SpA drop to normal poison would be a good idea tbh. The idea kinda is that bad poison is worse than normal poison, so I dont see it working that way.

[kizzo212]

This is a bit of a long essay that applies to a fair few suggestions on this site, but I feel that here is probably the best place to put it.

A lot of people have this opinion that all the things physical attacks are effected by (huge power, burn etc.), should also exist for special attacks and vice versa (e.g. assault vest). I can't help that feel maybe gamefreak has kept it like this for a reason. If things like a spA reducing status effect and a lot of clone abilities (i.e. Specisl versions of moxie, intimidate etc.) were introduced, the two options would become very similar, to the point where it is a 50-50 head or tails sort of thing, with one option being just as viable as the other in a lot of situations; a one-or-the-other thing. However, with different things affecting the two options, they become more viable than eachother depending on the situation. Before gen6 at least, physical attackers were arguably a lot more risky, due to the magnitude of things that affect the atk stat, such as moxie, intimidate, defiant, burns and so forth, with things like confusion damage and foul play also working off of the attack stat. On the other hand, special attacks were more reliable in a sense, with not that much affecting the damage other than the respective spA and spD of the two pokemon. This adds an "extra dimension" and imo makes the game much more interesting. However, this is all just really working on theories and assumptions. For all I know GF may have just neglected to introduce special counterparts due to them not fitting certain pokemon that well or something. The introduction of the ability competitive and assault vest last gen (well, I think competitive was only put in last gen) might be nodding towards greater equality between the two sides, so you never know. I dont think that adding more to the special side of things is not worth doing, I just think there should be variation between the two, and we shouldn't just create items/abilities that are clones of the physical counterpart.

This might sound slightly hypocritical as I support making hail give ice types a def buff, but that's more about balancing the ice type than balancing physical and special. This is also a sort of "eureka" moment for me anyway, so my past opinions may not have portrayed this particular trail of thought.

I'm not saying things like overawe (think thats the special intimdate iirc) should be scrapped completely. Overall, the point really is that I think we should be careful about making too many of these counterpart ideas part of the game, and at least make it so if we do introduce a "counterpart"-like ability, that maybe there's something minor in there that sets it apart ever so slightly from the original, maintaining this idea of the two sides being useful in different situations more than just the stat values of each pokemon.

Hope that made some sorta sense and didn't just waste everyone's time. If anything, it's just food for thought.

[ForeverCubone]

Trauma Status:

Psychic type
The Status is like burn and Paralyze where it makes a Pokemon's stat weaker, however the status it's self weakens the Spa and like burned does to physical attack.
The idea for this is that Special attacking Mons have little to no defining weakness in stat debuffs that hurt more than they would to a physical attacking counterpart.

This will even out the balance of attacking with Special attackers and Physical attackers.

As you all were saying with the Spa nerfs

[Anonymous Platypus]

Buff to the Bug and Ice-Type:

Bug should resist Fairy, and Fairy no longer resisting Bug. The justification for Fire resisting Fairy is apparently having to do with Fire destroying books. Bugs can destroy said books, so it would make sense that The Bug-Type can resist Fairy.

It's impossible to kill a cockroach with magic according to the Fairly Odd Parents and in many other series, insects have a natural resistance to magic.

Also, Fairy should no longer resist Bug as Fairies don't resist Fire-Type.

Furthermore, Ice-Types should resist Bug because insects are weaker in the cold, and this hasn't been reflected for 6 generations. Wtf TrollFreak!?

Overall, both the Bug and Ice-Types will receive a buff with these changes. The Bug-Type changes one of the types that resists it from Fairy to Ice, a powerful defensive type to a type almost never used defensively. And the Ice type enjoys resisting something other than itself.

DTail and Substitutes:

Also, Dragon Tail and its clones should have a 100% chance to break a substitute if they hit. Roar and Whirlwind pass through substitutes entirely, phasing both Pokemon and Substitute, but Dragon Tail doesn't phaze the sub like Roar and Whirlwind do. It would make sense from a logical standpoint to have DTail clones break subs, since they work by throwing the target far away. If that target happens to be a sub, then shouldn't it too be thrown out of the battle?

Scald's Burn Chance:

Scald should have its burn chance affected by weather. Scald should not have a 30% chance to burn in Rain when the rain that boosts its power cools the move down! Scald's burn chance should be as follows:
Heavy Rain and Hail: 0%
Rain: 10%
Sand/Wind/None: 20%
Sun: 30%
This scale gives Hail a buff and also makes Scald makes sense for once.

Freeze Mechanics:

Since we have Snap Freeze, a move that causes freezing approved and potential for an Icy Terrain which lets you spam Serene Grace Secret Power for a 60% freeze chance anywhere along our journey, we'll need to heavily nerf the way freezing works before we can implement both. The current mechanic provides a 20% chance to unfreeze each turn. That makes freeze insanely powerful and unpredictable. So my mechanic follows a system where the chance of thawing increases each turn, like ice melting. The thawing chance goes as follows:

Turn 1: 20%
Turn 2: 40%
Turn 3: 60%
Turn 4: 80%
Turn 5: 100%

Hail:
Turn 1: 10%
Turn 2: 20%
Turn 3: 30%
Turn 4: 40%
Turn 5: 50%
Turn 6: 60%
Turn 7: 80%
Turn 8: 100%

[kizzo212]

Just going to give my overall opinions on some of the stuff posted in here:

Firstly, in response to 9destra's suggestions:

There are some nice ideas in there, and maybe it would be nice to buff the bug type slightly, but I think it would be fine keeping bug type the same. I feel like in order to not confuse people too much, not too many changes to type match-ups should be made. The main priority imo is buffing Ice type, and adding in resistances to fairy and/or water seems to be the simplest way of going about this, with both fairy and water are pretty strong typings and not losing out too much.
As for the Dtail-style moves, I think this is a good idea. Although substitute allows you to punish well of a good status prediction, sometimes it just gets super lame, like speed boost farming, or just repeatedly subbing against a 90% accuracy move in the hope it misses. I guess this isn't really a priority for ingame, and no idea if I'll be able to code it in, but I'm all for any ways of nerfing substitute a little bit. It's also nice in how this wouldn't make roar etc. completely redundant, since this wouldn't phaze with the sub, and the moves don't have full accuracy anyway.
I kinda get where you are coming from with the scald stuff, but think it is more effort than is really necessary and would just make things complicated. Rain or hail wouldn't cool the water down that much anyway imo. If you throw a bucket of scalding water at someone whilst its snowing it isn't going to suddenly cool down by the time it reaches them.

Freeze

- In terms of freeze, I don't particularly like the original idea of only having you thaw if hit with a move or something along those lines. Would probably be simpler just to bump it up from 20 to 30, or have the chance to thaw go up as turns go on, as 9destra suggested. Increasing the number of fire moves that thaw freeze seems like a pretty obvious thing to do, and making all damaging fire moves thaw would probably make sense (could be questionable how something like ember thaws something, but then a pathetic move like powder snow has the chance to freeze pokemon in the first place so eh). Taking it on a bit further, could even have fighting, steel and rock moves thaw, or at least have a chance to, but it's probably a bit much. Giving a small buff to the defenses of a frozen Pokemon is also an option, depends if we just wanna nerf it a bit, or majorly revamp the concept.

Other things:

- The idea of having a confused Pokemon have a chance to attack their partner is nice. Almost a throwback to how hyper mode worked in colosseum in a way, so maybe it wouldn't even be that hard to code in (hopefully), as shadow stuff does exist in essentials and might be able to copy some things over.
- Following Pokemon is obviously cool and would be great to put in. I have tried before and not had too much success but we'll see.
- As I've mentioned, there's no real need for a SpA nerfing status imo.
- Ice types getting a 50% Defense boost under Hail makes sense enough.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2015 12:48:55 GMT 1 Devoxys said:

Throwing in a quick suggestion for a "Light" type, because Wynaut. If this is approved, I can make a lot of new Pokemon for it.

SE: Dark, Poison, maybe one more
NVE: Ice (It needs more resists), Rock, Fire, Steel
Weak: Dark, Steel, Rock
Resist: Poison, Bug, Fighting


Also we need to buff Ice, Ice way too weak imo.

YASS
Finally, someone else who wants the Light type.

[kizzo212]

I feel like the chance for a light type existed back when fairy wasn't a thing. I just dont really see the niche for it now to be honest. Fighting covers the honour and heroic side of it, and then a variety of moves cover the actual physical idea of light, such as flash cannon, dazzling gleam, tail glow etc. Feel like any potential "light type" designs can be altered somewhat easily into something else, and end of the day it isn't needed. Pretty sure light types exist in other fangames so you could find those if you really like the idea, but doubt we are going to take another type onboard any time soon.

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2016 22:48:14 GMT 1 Anonymous Platypus said:

Freeze Mechanics:

Since we have Snap Freeze, a move that causes freezing approved and potential for an Icy Terrain which lets you spam Serene Grace Secret Power for a 60% freeze chance anywhere along our journey, we'll need to heavily nerf the way freezing works before we can implement both. The current mechanic provides a 20% chance to unfreeze each turn. That makes freeze insanely powerful and unpredictable. So my mechanic follows a system where the chance of thawing increases each turn, like ice melting. The thawing chance goes as follows:

Turn 1: 20%
Turn 2: 40%
Turn 3: 60%
Turn 4: 80%
Turn 5: 100%

Hail:
Turn 1: 10%
Turn 2: 20%
Turn 3: 30%
Turn 4: 40%
Turn 5: 50%
Turn 6: 60%
Turn 7: 80%
Turn 8: 100%

Sun:
Turn 1: 33%
Turn 2: 66%
Turn 3: 99% (Make this 100%)

Pokemon shouldn't be able to freeze in harsh sun. If they were frozen before the harsh sun, they instantly thaw.

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2016 19:27:15 GMT 1 kizzo212 said:

I feel like the chance for a light type existed back when fairy wasn't a thing. I just dont really see the niche for it now to be honest. Fighting covers the honour and heroic side of it, and then a variety of moves cover the actual physical idea of light, such as flash cannon, dazzling gleam, tail glow etc. Feel like any potential "light type" designs can be altered somewhat easily into something else, and end of the day it isn't needed. Pretty sure light types exist in other fangames so you could find those if you really like the idea, but doubt we are going to take another type onboard any time soon.

Wynaut? Light doesn't always have to mean good or justice. It's just light, to brighten up darkness. And it is the only reasonable type to take onboard imo.

Edit: If we have a Light type, we can make all the moves you mentioned (and others like Solar Beam) Light-type moves.

[kizzo212]

Yeah. And I said that "just light", light in the physical sense, is already covered by a lot of moves. Fairy pretty much covers all moonlight, steel all "mechanical" light and then something like solarbeam covers sunlight. And then there's a ton of other miscellaneous "light-based" moves like aurora beam, light screen, tail glow. I just dont see there being a niche for it at all, and its not exactly an original concept that will make the game special.

[Devoxys]

The Light type was an old suggestion that I made in two minutes. It got shot down pretty much immediately. Why are we still talking about this ?_?

[rexthegamer]

When you kill a pokemon you could get a piece of its body, and then you can clone it to recreate the pokemon. This adds a different way into getting pokemon instead of constantly buying pokeballs however there is only a 25% chance it will work. This can also make this game unique.

[Anonymous Platypus]

kizzo212 boiling water actually freezes the fastest. When it's below freezing get a cup of boiling water and spill the water outside. It will freeze before it hits the ground.

[Devoxys]

Feb 9, 2016 19:29:16 GMT 1 rexthegamer said:

When you kill a pokemon you could get a piece of its body, and then you can clone it to recreate the pokemon. This adds a different way into getting pokemon instead of constantly buying pokeballs however there is only a 25% chance it will work. This can also make this game unique.

Ummm nooooo

The idea of capturing a Pokemon using capsules is the core mechanic of Pokemon (alongside trading and battling). It should never be replaced on a large scale. 

[pokemonvortex]

Run Away can always switch out of battle regardless of any trapping moves the opponent has used on it or any trapping ability the opponent has; wild encounters are always escapable regardless of any abilities or moves used.
ps-fakemons.proboards.com/thread/305/panic

[kizzo212]

I think the change to run away would make enough sense.

[Cyberknight98]

Good god, Rex, we're not murdering pokemon, harvesting their body parts, and cloning them... How do you even come up with that?

[rexthegamer]

I have a dark imagination XD

[Deleted]

I think Ice-type shuld get a buff in this game. Remove its Steel- weakness and make it resist Grass.

The reasoning behind ice resisting grass is that plants can't grow and thrive in extremely cold conditions, and Ice already hits Grass super effectively, so why not have this too?

We should remove its Steel- weakness, because then it will be able to be a little bit more defensive, and a Steel-type weakness is less obvious than its other weaknesses.

[Devoxys]

Feb 13, 2016 10:37:43 GMT 1 @megahop said:

I think Ice-type shuld get a buff in this game. Remove its Steel- weakness and make it resist Grass.

The reasoning behind ice resisting grass is that plants can't grow and thrive in extremely cold conditions, and Ice already hits Grass super effectively, so why not have this too?

We should remove its Steel- weakness, because then it will be able to be a little bit more defensive, and a Steel-type weakness is less obvious than its other weaknesses.

To be honest that's pretty close to the previously discussed buff, where Ice will resist the Water and Fairy types.