[ti]WIP[/ti]MegaBeartic Discussion

[Salient]

A while ago, we had our first Mega Evolution contest. It came down to either Jirachi or Beartic, and the winner was Beartic (rip Mega Jirachi dream). This thread will be used to discuss Mega Beartic's base stats, ability, and other useful information. This thread will also discuss any changes that should be made to normal Beartic (mainly move-pool).

Original Beartic


Mega Beartic: The Freezing Pokemon
Type: Ice /
Base Stats: 95 HP | ? Atk | ? Def | ? SpA | ? SpD | ? Spe (BST: 585)
Ability:
Mega Stone:
Weight: 
Height: 
New Moves:

[Salient]

Note: Do not submit your own ideas yet. We're simply discussing what we want for MegaBeartic. You can submit your idea once we've discussed it enough.

[Anonymous Platypus]

Mega Beartic: Beartic is set up like a tank. Bulky, almost hard-hitting, but slow. It's just not bulky enough with its pure Ice typing and its 95/80/80 defenses. This is where the changes I want to see come in.

• Fur Coat: Several new sig abilities were introduced in Gen 6, including Strong Jaw, Refrigerate and Fur Coat. Strong Jaw and Refrigerate were given out to a Mega while Fur Coat can only be found on that God-awful poddle thing we know as Furfrou. Fur Coat is also exactly the ability Beartic needs to be any good. It also makes sense because polar bears do, indeed have very thick fur, unlike poodles. I also see Furfrou as sort of a test subject of the ability Fur Coat, with a strong possibility of the ability being handed out to a wider distribution in the future. It does follow Pokémon's general trend of handing out sigs to other Pokémon. Night Shade, Lick, Glare, Waterfall, Pay Day, Splash, Super Fang, Hyper Fang, Dizzy Punch, Megahorn, Beat Up, Sacred Fire, Teeter Dance, Muddy Water, Leaf Blade, Blaze Kick, Magic Coat, Spacial Rend, Roar of Time, Shadow Force, Shift Gear, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, V-Create, Glaciate, Spiky Shield, Water Shuriken and Mystical Fire all used to be signature moves at one point. That list includes multiple examples from EVERY generation.

• Ice/Fighting-Type: Beartic already gets such a large number of Fighting-Type moves that you'd think it was a Fighting-Type itself. Giving Beartic the Fighting-Type will also make it much more threatening on the battlefield because the Ice/Fighting STAB combo works quite well together, especially with the possibility of Ice resisting Bug and Fairy. That leaves it with Fire, Flying, Fighting, Psychic and Steel as its only weaknesses, and Beartic already gets coverage moves against those types.

• A boost to the Atk, SpD and Spe Stats: Beartic needs a boost to its Attackk and Speed if we want to make it worth using over normal Beartic. With the aforementioned Fur Coat, Beartic won't need a Defense boost to increase its bulk, saving those precious points for Speed. Beartic should also get a Special Defense boost to further enchance its bulk.

Normal Beartic: Of course, some changes need to be made to the normal Beartic before it'll be truly formidable foe in its Mega form.

• Ice Shard: I never understood why Beartic does NOT get this move.

• Bite & Crunch: It's a polar bear. Polar bear bites are just as dangerous if not, more dangerous than that of a grizzly bear. Yet for some odd reason, Ursaring gets Bite / Crunch while Beartic doesn't.

• Drain Punch: Possibly the one move Beartic needs, Drain Punch will give Beartic at least a semi-reliable recovery option to enhance its tankyness. It might actually be easy to work Drain Punch into Mega Beartic's design since it already gets a lot of Fighting-Type moves.

• +10 Spe: Beartic is so slow that a cactus can outrun it, so a slight speed boost will help Beartic out even more.

[kizzo212]

9destra has made some good suggestions. I've decided to make a list of the main options are that we have available to us, and give some pros and cons to them all. But first I'll just suggest some underlying problems that might need to be solved in order to make beartic better.

1) It's ice type. Changing the type chart and other possible mechanic changes will help make this not so much of an issue. But the large amount of weaknesses isnt helped by the fact that...
2) It's slow. Lot's of things carry something that hits an ice type super effectively, making beartic easy to revenge kill, as well as generally always taking a chunk of damage before it can do anything.
3) Movepool. It isn't too bad, but lacks a strong ice STAB, and is walled pretty hard by water types, with it's only reasonably strong coverage move being superpower, which has it's drawbacks, possibly forcing beartic to switch out, which it definitely doesnt want to do if stealth rocks are in play.
4) Weak to status and hazards in general. It gets hit by all hazards and all status conditions bar freeze, which make it really unsafe to switch in and out, or try to set up with. Giving it some way to heal could help with this, but I feel like its best to try and make it so when mega beartic does come in, it makes the most of it.
5) Here's the strawpoll for ability voting: www.strawpoll.me/10414297 Before voting, please read Kizzo's perspective on each of these abilities. He lists pros and cons of each one.

Abilities:

SPOILER: Click to show

Fur Coat

+ Makes beartic a load more viable straight away.
+ No buffs need to be made to the defense stat, allowing for larger additions to other areas.
 - Lacks a recovery move to make use of its added bulk, and still loses a large chunk from hazards like stealth rock. Adding Drain Punch will help a bit but still.
 - Would possibly still be a bit too OP, but this could be balanced out by giving sub-optimal stat improvements, like added SpA.
 - Although this would allow for more speed, having fur coat as an ability would suggest that, design-wise, beartic would become fatter and more furry, not really suggesting that it would gain speed.

Hoarfrost

+ Adds an immunity and a way for mega beartic to increase its attack power and become threatening.
+ Fits very well in terms of flavour.
 - It's an immunity to a type it already resists, and also a not too common typing (I guess a lot of things carry ice beam), meaning it is activation would be reasonably situational.
 - Don't really see it increasing mega beartic's viability much at all, as there are still lots of things holding it back.

Sheer Force 

+ Lacking a strong physical ice attack, this would increase the power of icicle crash (and also ice punch) and make it hit pretty hard.
+ Could possibly make a mixed set viable, having a strong focus blast and ice beam.
+ It would also boost the power of play rough and rock slide (and crunch if added), but these dont offer too much coverage.
 - The flinch chance for icicle crash would be lost, but I don't think it would be gaining enough speed to outspeed and flinch too many things anyway.
 - Although it adds power, feel like the defenses and speed would still hold beartic back, possibly just leaving it as a worse glalie.

Tough Claws

+ Would increase the power of ice punch, allowing for a reasonable strong physical STAB option.
+ Increases the power of a lot more of beartic's movepool than sheer force does, boosting superpower, aqua jet and possible added moves like drain punch.
 - Already pretty common amongst mega Pokemon, but feel it would actually make more sense on beartic than any of the existing megas.
 - Has the same issue as sheer force of not really helping with its speed or defense.

Adaptability

+ Increases the power of icicle crash with no drawback, (as well as ice shard if added which neither of the two above do)
+ If a secondary type is added would also make those moves super strong, especially something like superpower.
 - Don't really see it fitting for some reason. I guess mega lucario broke the mold of what pokes can get access to it a bit.
 - Doesn't boost any coverage moves.
 - Still doesn't really help with the speed or defense.

Refridgerate

+ Gives it a super strong Ice STAB in the form of refridgerate return.
 - Doesn't boost any of its coverage moves
 - Still doesn't really help with the speed or defense.
 - May end up being too similar to mega glalie, although a secondary typing may help with this a bit.

Swift Swim

+ Is already its hidden ability so it's reasonable that it might keep it
+ Solves the speed problem, possibly allowing for icicle crash flinch shenanigans
 - Mega Swampert probably does it better. One thing beartic does have over swampert is access to swords dance, allowing it to be extremely deadly.
 - Wouldn't get too much use out of the ability in-game
 - Requires team support, but would be quite a nice addition to a rain team, being able to power through grass types and pokemon like goodra/lati@s/thundurus, and dent ferrothorn hard, all being pokemon that give rain teams a bit of a problem, especially if it gets a swords dance off (being mega it should have the bulk to be able to do so).

Technician

+ Would increase the power of aqua jet, and ice shard (assuming it gets this is really what makes this a worthwhile suggestion), allowing for swords dance late game sweeping.
 - The way the above would function is a bit similar to mega abomasnow, but it would hit harder and have aqua jet for dual priority coverage
+ Boosts moves like power-up punch, aerial ace (letting it hit fighting types reasonably hard), bulldoze (nearly making up for the absence of earthquake) and rock tomb, the latter two being quite nice as they could possibly make up for the low speed a little bit.
+ Relying on priority means there's not really any need for speed investment, allowing it to function in trick room, as well as allowing for more investment in bulk and attack.
 - Relying on priority also means it probably won't be that great as a wall breaker etc., being relegated more to just the role of late game sweeper.
 - Doesn't make too much sense as to why it would get this ability.

Snow Warning

+ Allows for 100% Blizzard and chip damage on the opponent, and can set up hail for teammates.
+ With possible hail mechanic changes, could boost defense, but otherwise doesn't help with speed or bulk at all.
 - Doesn't do anything for it's physical attack power.
 - (Mega) Abomasnow exists.

Snow Cloak/Ice Body

+ Increased evasion/healing in hail.
+ Fits well aesthetically.
 - Doesn't do anything for its attack power or other stats.
 - Needs hail team support, but would also benefit from possible hail buffs.


Thick Fat

+ Fits well aesthetically.
+ Effectively removes fire weakness, and improves ice resistance.
 - Doesn't do anything for its attack power or speed.

Iron Fist
+ Boosts the power of ice punch.
+ Also boosts power-up punch and focus punch (and possibly drain punch).
 - Completely outclassed by tough claws.
 - Doesn't do anything for defenses or speed.

Guts (+Quick Feet)

+ Turns getting inflicted by status into a positive.
+ Would fit aesthetically with an added fighting type.
 - Lack of an alternate ability means mega beartic is sure to have guts, reducing the chance of the opponent inflicting status unknowingly
 - Will most likely have to switch in on a predicted status attack to get the boost, and it can't afford to keep switching in and out due to its typing.
 - Doesn't do anything for defenses or speed(or attack), and is too situational.

Defiant/Justified/Anger Point

+ Can boost its attack (a ton with the latter).
- Doesn't do anything for defenses or speed, and is reasonably situational (extremely situational for the latter).

Mold Breaker

+ Let's it hit Pokemon like mega Venusaur through thick fat, or possible pokemon with the hoarfrost ability.
+ Let's it hit shedinja and hit through sturdy.
 - Doesnt really offer much else outside of this due to lack of earthquake.

Intimidate/Overawe

+ Works aesthetically (more the former)
+ Effectively improves bulk
 - Doesn't want to be switching in often.
 - Doesn't improve speed, attack or alternate defense.

No Guard

+ Means icicle crash can't miss, along with play rough and rock slide.
+ Makes mixed somewhat more viable with focus blast and blizzard.
 - Doesn't help with attack power, and icicle crash still has reasonable accuracy.
 - Means moves like fire blast, stone edge and high jump kick wouldn't miss at all
 - Doesn't improve speed or defenses at all.

Parental Bond

+ Would improve attack.
+ Would allow for use of power-up punch over swords dance for an attack boost.
+ Icicle Crash would have more chance to flinch.
 - Does the world need a second mega kangaskhan.
 - Doesn't really make sense at all.

Moxie

+ Sweeper potential
 - Most likely too slow to make good use of it.
 - Doesn't improve speed or defenses at all.

Huge Power

+ Possibly terrible enough to actually have this and not be OP
 - No

[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Typings:

SPOILER: Click to show

Ice Type
+ Stays true to the base form
+ Doesn't add any more weaknesses
 - Lack of STAB coverage and resistances

Ice/Fighting Type
+ Has a wide movepool of fighting type moves and fits design wise.
+ Unique typing.
+ Removes weakness to rock (+stealth rock).
+ Adds resistances to bug and dark. 
+ Allows it to hit steel and rock types harder, as well as having better STAB coverage overall.
 - Adds weaknesses to psychic, flying and fairy (or removes resistance to fairy). Can hit flying types SE with ice, and has coverage for psychic types.
 - Lacks a really good fighting move aside from superpower. (could get drain punch).

Ice/Water Type
+ Has a connection to water as a cubchoo and gets several unorthodox water moves + swift swim.
+ Removes weaknesses to fire and steel.
+ Adds resistances to water (may just be doubled)
+ Allows for STAB priority (dual if ice shard is given to beartic), and can hit rock types with STAB.
 - Adds weaknesses to electric and grass, which can be hit SE with ice.
 - Lacks a useful water type move outside of aqua jet. (dive works ingame I guess)
 - Ice/Water is a pretty common typing, the STAB combination also gets walled by other water types pretty hard.

For any other type combination there's a lack of reason really. Ice/dark could be an option, but weavile covers that pretty well.

Moves:

SPOILER: Click to show

I feel like it's wrong to add lots of moves to the original just for the sake of the mega. Feel like it should be two at most, but probably just one or none.

Drain Punch - Would be a useful, not particularly questionable addition for a part fighting mega beartic.
Ice Shard - Useful for pretty much any mega beartic, but mainly the slower ones.
Bite/Crunch - Honestly I see no real reason to add these. It has access to night slash and would result in changing up the original too much.
Hammer Arm - This makes sense for a fighting type mega beartic. Maybe makes more sense than drain punch and has extra power but sacrifices speed.
Waterfall - Would be useful for a part water mega beartic. Already gets dive, aqua jet and surf so isn't a long shot, but not too convinced about it.

[Deleted]

If we have the Ice-type buff that I suggested in the Mechanics Discussion thread, Mega Beartic will be awesome.

[Anonymous Platypus]

Have we discussed Mega Beartic enough for me to post my suggested stat spread?

[Cyberknight98]

I thought we had already agreed that Mega Beartic was going to receive the ability Hoarfrost... Maybe I'm mistaken. I definitely think we should give Beartic access to Ice shard, and maybe Waterfall. Obviously, buffing Mega Beartic's attack is a no brainer, but should we make it speed focused or defense focused? Personally, I think making it faster is the way to go, maybe giving it swift swim. If we go the bulkier route, then Fur Coat or Thick Fat would fit well. Finally, I think we should consider giving Mega Beartic a secondary typing. Water would make sense and give him STAB Aqua Jet. Only problem is... it's another Ice/Water type... do we really need more of those?

[Kim BC]

A bulkier route isn't a good idea as ice-types are bad defensively and are better offensively. No matter how defensive, it'll still be pretty bad, I mean Avalugg has 184 defense and is still considered bad. Mega Beartic should follow an offensive route unless ice-types get some key resistances or other boosts in the mechanic discussions.

Hoarfrost is a cool ability but it isn't increasing Beartic's viability by a ton like kizzo212 said. Mega Beartic doesn't really need a powerful ability to be good as long as it's stats can back it up so Hoarfrost is still up for an option. There are megas doing just fine with near useless abilities like Steadfast Mega Gallade and Solar Power Mega Houndoom. Though I think Hoarfrost would be more viable than those two and isn't exactly "near useless."

[Devoxys]

However, those megas are viable due to a good stat spread to start with and a great movepool, unlike Beartic. Beartic desperately needs a good ability to back it up.

[Salient]

Mega Beartic has been scrapped.